muppetfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Cooperation
lots of cooperating This is a confusing article. As of this writing, all it says is that it's a Sesame Street song, it was written by Pottle and Kingsley, and it first appeared in Episode 1004. I assume this comes from a CTW file of some sort, but the vagueries weighed against other data bring up a mixed collection of information. My research for this song brings up the following options in ASCAP which, from their titles, all match the themes of the song: 498091599 (Bloomfield and Hardwick), 332547856 (Kingsley and Merkin), 498097155 (Conner, Tyson and Brown), and 332461073 (Pottle). The best way I can think of handling it given our lack of information is to create a page for "Cooperation Makes It Happen" based on the repeated chorus of the song. It's the most likely search phrase for this well-remembered song, and we have at least three episode on the wiki where we can confirm the song appears (1004 excluded, since we don't know what version is being used there). We leave the composers credits open for now until a verifiable source comes along, but at least we've got a page for it. The CTW Archives are great, but I guess this is one of the few occassions where it causes more confusion than help. Thoughts? —Scott (talk) 20:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC) :Listening to the song by AMs led by Jim Henson (YouTube link above) again, it looks like that one is "Street Garden Cooperation" (498091599) as evidenced by the emphasis on making a street garden. So that eliminates one out of the equation, but it still leaves the other three as possible candidates for this entry (again, presumably) from the CTW Archives. Anyone know for sure what the sources are for that? Danny? —Scott (talk) 18:42, 18 March 2008 (UTC) ::I may have figured out what the other three are: this is the Conner, Tyson, and Brown version. The Kingsley-Merkin one is the song by Herry and an AM girl (on the Video Player), and was listed in the credits of a 2000 episode of Plaza Sesamo. The last one, by Pottle alone, is described as "Chaplin Park Bench Cooperation", so it was likely used for a studio insert. I can't find anything about the Pottle/Kingsley song. ASCAP and BMI do not list it. -- MuppetDude 20:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC) * Robert Merkin: 1998?-present * Emily Kinglsey: 1970-present * Sam Pottle: 1974-1978 Okay, so the mystery left is how to identify what's going on with the Pottle/Kingsley/Merkin triangle. It's my guess that the song credited solely to Pottle by ASCAP is the same one that's credited to he and Kinglsey in the CTW Archives. The song credited to Kingsley and Merkin is a newer, separate song. Does that make sense? That still leaves us not know what song this article is about. —Scott (talk) 20:57, 18 March 2008 (UTC) :Actually, I feel like we should question the archive material, in that it's not clear how much really came from there. The eka obviously, but did anything specifically say that song was by Pottle and Kingsley, or was it an extrapolation based on seeing their names individually tied to a song of that name elsewhere? It's possible it is a seperate song, but it could also just be a merging. Also, the dates on Merkin on his article are faulty or at least misleading, since he's been writing songs for the series since at least the mid-1980s (only the musical director status is more recent, supposedly, or possibly only because full credits for the earlier seasons aren'ton the Wiki), so that song may not be quite as recent, but as Tony said, that one, sung by Herry, is on the video player. From the look of it, I'd guess late early 90s myself. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:19, 18 March 2008 (UTC) ::The date for Merkin is my fault. I didn't realize he was doing stuff that early on. ::As for the CTW Archives, I checked the scans Danny sent me from one of his visits and it explicitly shows that a song titled "Cooperation" was written by Pottle/Kingsley. I don't know where Danny got the eka from though. —Scott (talk) 21:29, 18 March 2008 (UTC) :::Aha, thanks for checking that. Then yeah, it must be a different song. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 21:53, 18 March 2008 (UTC) ::::Would the Kingsley/Merkin one be found on this page? --MuppetVJ 22:20, 18 March 2008 (UTC) :::::Sort of. There's no image there, but it matches the "Song for Two Will Make Us One" thing included in the chart below. -- Andrew Leal (talk) 22:36, 18 March 2008 (UTC) ::::::My initial question has been answered, so I'm taking the talk tag off. This table stands as a good guide for figuring out the other ones as we get more information about them. —Scott (talk) 00:54, 24 March 2008 (UTC) ::::::::Is the reggae cooperation song from the Michael Sporn cartoon in Episode 2783, which links to this page, one of these? Or is this something contracted out to an animation company? It's on youtube here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_vWn4xK3UI - Kate 20:08, March 21, 2010 (UTC) :::::::::Yeah, that's a different song (no idea what it might becalled) and the link should be fixed. I might e-mail Michael Sporn or someone about it. For inserts, especially older ones, the songs might come from the Sesame folks, or they might be in-house at the animation studio, as was the case with the Willie Wimple series, often depending on topic, theme, and the basic relationship the studio/animator had with Sesame coordinators (Edith Zornow and then Arlene Sherman), or even just how comfortable the filmmaker was (whether they wanted to just visualize someone else's work, or had a full idea in mind, including lyrics). Sporn hasn't mentioned that specific spot anywhere, but he has discussed others on his blog, with details, and for those, he chose the composer/songwriters. For Sporn's work in general, Kate, you'd probably enjoy this entry, with links and some composer notes (he goes into more detail on some spots, like the Crocodile Smile, elsewhere), and it has some tidbits I'd missed before. - Andrew Leal (talk) 21:13, March 21, 2010 (UTC)